What happened to
Keeko / 1 decade ago (24 January 2007 03:45)
I noticed that my last thread about "Featured Artists" was taken off the Messageboard. Could it be that we don't have "Freedom Of Speech" here? I am not trying to cause any problems, but I do feel we all have the right to say what we feel without it being deleted just because Management dosen't agree, after all the suggestions are to better the site so more will join SB.
Here is a quote from Rumpole Of The Bailey and my husband.
"I may not agree with everything you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
We all have our own opinions, and just because you don't agree with someone, dosen't mean they are wrong...... 
Post replies:
1 decade ago (24.01.2007 03:56)
Reply by: MountainHawk
Difference between winners and losers is winners know there is a time for all things. A time for war and a time for peace. A time for love and a time for hate. A time to be vocal and a time to be still. I choose to be still at this time. 
I agree with you Avy, good point. I don´t like it either, impartiality is a great virtue. The difficulty is with staff that just that virtue is replaced by dubious ones. If members start to speak out, you can either reason it out or boldly block people from speaking out and even ban them. These threads have actually resulted into the latter without even trying to reason it out.
Generally Nikos does a great job, but even he has to reflect on his behaviour(and use his poweradministration skills wisely), and if necessary change his ways. He is not right all the time, neither is anyone else. When I was a staffmember for a short time, I asked not to be featured just for reasons of colliding interests. It was not honoured though. Just one of those fatcs
Now with submitting freely, yes, this is one of those great sites where it is still possible. Everybody is welcome, but within the staff people talk about work submitted sometimes as crap. Now that is in the eye of the beholder isn´t it? I am of the opinion that one always tries his best, and that the best artists sometimes don´t because they are so gifted. I find that sad.
So, when these threads appear, there is a need for concrete discussion. People genuinely think something can be done better and more wisely. What is wrong with that? I read even you are unhappy how features are done. I suggest to have that discussion, and put the pro´s and cons out in the open on this thread, rather than to say "not agreeing" and that´s it. I find that an insult to human intelligence.
Generally Nikos does a great job, but even he has to reflect on his behaviour(and use his poweradministration skills wisely), and if necessary change his ways. He is not right all the time, neither is anyone else. When I was a staffmember for a short time, I asked not to be featured just for reasons of colliding interests. It was not honoured though. Just one of those fatcs
Now with submitting freely, yes, this is one of those great sites where it is still possible. Everybody is welcome, but within the staff people talk about work submitted sometimes as crap. Now that is in the eye of the beholder isn´t it? I am of the opinion that one always tries his best, and that the best artists sometimes don´t because they are so gifted. I find that sad.
So, when these threads appear, there is a need for concrete discussion. People genuinely think something can be done better and more wisely. What is wrong with that? I read even you are unhappy how features are done. I suggest to have that discussion, and put the pro´s and cons out in the open on this thread, rather than to say "not agreeing" and that´s it. I find that an insult to human intelligence.
I agree with you Avy, good point. I don´t like it either, impartiality is a great virtue. The difficulty is with staff that just that virtue is replaced by dubious ones. If members start to speak out, you can either reason it out or boldly block people from speaking out and even ban them. These threads have actually resulted into the latter without even trying to reason it out.
Generally Nikos does a great job, but even he has to reflect on his behaviour(and use his poweradministration skills wisely), and if necessary change his ways. He is not right all the time, neither is anyone else. When I was a staffmember for a short time, I asked not to be featured just for reasons of colliding interests. It was not honoured though. Just one of those fatcs
Now with submitting freely, yes, this is one of those great sites where it is still possible. Everybody is welcome, but within the staff people talk about work submitted sometimes as crap. Now that is in the eye of the beholder isn´t it? I am of the opinion that one always tries his best, and that the best artists sometimes don´t because they are so gifted. I find that sad.
So, when these threads appear, there is a need for concrete discussion. People genuinely think something can be done better and more wisely. What is wrong with that? I read even you are unhappy how features are done. I suggest to have that discussion, and put the pro´s and cons out in the open on this thread, rather than to say "not agreeing" and that´s it. I find that an insult to human intelligence.
Generally Nikos does a great job, but even he has to reflect on his behaviour(and use his poweradministration skills wisely), and if necessary change his ways. He is not right all the time, neither is anyone else. When I was a staffmember for a short time, I asked not to be featured just for reasons of colliding interests. It was not honoured though. Just one of those fatcs
Now with submitting freely, yes, this is one of those great sites where it is still possible. Everybody is welcome, but within the staff people talk about work submitted sometimes as crap. Now that is in the eye of the beholder isn´t it? I am of the opinion that one always tries his best, and that the best artists sometimes don´t because they are so gifted. I find that sad.
So, when these threads appear, there is a need for concrete discussion. People genuinely think something can be done better and more wisely. What is wrong with that? I read even you are unhappy how features are done. I suggest to have that discussion, and put the pro´s and cons out in the open on this thread, rather than to say "not agreeing" and that´s it. I find that an insult to human intelligence.
1 decade ago (25.01.2007 07:25)
Reply by: MountainHawk
Jacob.....I think it is a waste of time now. I do not believe Nikos will undo what he has done. Contrary to what Avy said I do not believe for a second that Nikos was cornered. He always had the upper hand. He also had the only weaponry. In the end he gunned down three unarmed people who had no means of retaliating in kind. He could never lose and knew that and I knew that. I thought he would duscuss things....Instead he got defensive and went into bat on the wrong foot and that is where it unravelled. As I say...he will not turn back the clock...the damage is done and it is pointless now in my view. He has erased opposition to his way. Thank you for trying Jacob.
Iain, I won´t accept that. There is always the way of reason. It´s the only way. And it needs to be openly discussed. Not "I disagree" and no elaboration next to it. Not deleting of threads. Not saying "I am insulted" and demote members. That reeks of dictatorship. That won´t help anyone. What is at stake here is for the benefit and the diversity of this site. This needs to be in the open like journalism keeps politicians in check. I think it is up to the staff now to think things over and come up with some good options and actions. The least they can do is inform members and inform with reasons why. I think they will.
Dear Jacob,
I decided not to participate in this discussion because I can´t cope with situations like this very well, and having to look after myself after what I have often experienced before, I would like this to be accepted. If you want to call this an insult to human intelligence, I can´t stop you from doing so.
Saying that I wouldn´t have started the whole discussion the way it has been done does not necessarily mean that I would have done it any better. I never claimed to be that wise. But the feature thing has not such a big importance for me, and way a few people at Skinbase know how uncomfortable I felt with being featured so often.
I will be just fine as long as my images get downloaded and I get a few comments, no matter if positive or critical ones.
Dear Iain,
your reply leaves me believing that you either haven´t read my post thoroughly enough, or I wasn´t able to express myself good enough to be understood. But regardless of what it was, your post made it clear that you are still convinced that Nikos is the only one who has to overthink his behaviour.
And I make it clear that I don´t agree with that. Fair enough....I didn´t expect anything when I posted....I only wanted to feel better myself, selfish as I am.
But what I was actually talking about, was the choice of words that had been used.....mainly in the thread that has been deleted.
This will be all from me.
Have a good day or night, whereever you are.
I decided not to participate in this discussion because I can´t cope with situations like this very well, and having to look after myself after what I have often experienced before, I would like this to be accepted. If you want to call this an insult to human intelligence, I can´t stop you from doing so.
Saying that I wouldn´t have started the whole discussion the way it has been done does not necessarily mean that I would have done it any better. I never claimed to be that wise. But the feature thing has not such a big importance for me, and way a few people at Skinbase know how uncomfortable I felt with being featured so often.
I will be just fine as long as my images get downloaded and I get a few comments, no matter if positive or critical ones.
Dear Iain,
your reply leaves me believing that you either haven´t read my post thoroughly enough, or I wasn´t able to express myself good enough to be understood. But regardless of what it was, your post made it clear that you are still convinced that Nikos is the only one who has to overthink his behaviour.
And I make it clear that I don´t agree with that. Fair enough....I didn´t expect anything when I posted....I only wanted to feel better myself, selfish as I am.
But what I was actually talking about, was the choice of words that had been used.....mainly in the thread that has been deleted.
This will be all from me.
Have a good day or night, whereever you are.
1 decade ago (25.01.2007 09:54)
Reply by: adni18
I have to make things clear for those who don’t understand what is going on here.
2-3 members of Skinbase, they wanted "improvements" of the "featured skins system".
And why is that? Because they didn´t see their work featured for some time now,
They get upset and started the drama. Saying things like:
mountainhawk: "...The current trend shows that those who whinge the loudest, who absent themselves from the site for extended periods and contribute little to the site are more likely to be featured. I see it as insulting to those artist that contribute and support the site daily with regularity."
First insult from mountainhawk: wrong feature works choices because the Admin didn’t choose their works to be featured. mountainhawk "see it as insulting".
fjnunes712: "The feature selection process is inconsistent here at best."
“…are complete fairness and consistency being practiced here on an ongoing basis?”
fjnunes712 doubts if the Admin is consistent and fair and he accuse the Administrator for inconsistent “feature works” choices.
mountainhawk: “… the unspoken message been sent that if you stay away and do not participate or if you jump up and down and stamp your feet you get featured”
another insult by mountainhawk for the Administrator.
fjnunes712: “It’s a bad practice for one person to select anything without input from others…”
fjnunes712 means that Admin is a tasteless dictator.
mountainhawk: “… expect proper recognition of those that participate. A feature cannot be made a feature just by saying it is”
mountainhawk want recognition for his participation and the featured works, he says, are not good enough for been featured, are just wrong choices of the Admin.
mountainhawk: “… You have clearly misread and misunderstood and conveniently ignored what has been said. When arrogance and stubbornness stops from moving forward…
mountainhawk says that the Admin can’t read nor understand and he is arrogant and stubborn!
The rest accusations and insults can been seen in the current thread.
I should remind you, that my answers to all these were only the following:
1. Go on people “speak you mind” you have the right to do it, but this doesn’t mean that you are right. Only the best works have been and will be featured. No exceptions, no politics, we are just trying to have in our Skinbase vitrine ONLY the best works, with fairness and respect to ALL the authors. Some people may think that their works are the best and deserve to be featured, but maybe they are wrong.
2. No matter what the choice is there will be always people who will disagree, that’s life.
3. (email was sent to fjnunes712):
Hello Fred,
You have the right to speak your mind, in a kind way as an adult.
Though, it is not acceptable to insult any Admin or Moderator of Skinbase.
I feel sorry for this situation, but we don´t need more drama´s in SB.
There are no hard feelings on my end too.
Nikos
The thread will be closed now, we had enough of drama.
2-3 members of Skinbase, they wanted "improvements" of the "featured skins system".
And why is that? Because they didn´t see their work featured for some time now,
They get upset and started the drama. Saying things like:
mountainhawk: "...The current trend shows that those who whinge the loudest, who absent themselves from the site for extended periods and contribute little to the site are more likely to be featured. I see it as insulting to those artist that contribute and support the site daily with regularity."
First insult from mountainhawk: wrong feature works choices because the Admin didn’t choose their works to be featured. mountainhawk "see it as insulting".
fjnunes712: "The feature selection process is inconsistent here at best."
“…are complete fairness and consistency being practiced here on an ongoing basis?”
fjnunes712 doubts if the Admin is consistent and fair and he accuse the Administrator for inconsistent “feature works” choices.
mountainhawk: “… the unspoken message been sent that if you stay away and do not participate or if you jump up and down and stamp your feet you get featured”
another insult by mountainhawk for the Administrator.
fjnunes712: “It’s a bad practice for one person to select anything without input from others…”
fjnunes712 means that Admin is a tasteless dictator.
mountainhawk: “… expect proper recognition of those that participate. A feature cannot be made a feature just by saying it is”
mountainhawk want recognition for his participation and the featured works, he says, are not good enough for been featured, are just wrong choices of the Admin.
mountainhawk: “… You have clearly misread and misunderstood and conveniently ignored what has been said. When arrogance and stubbornness stops from moving forward…
mountainhawk says that the Admin can’t read nor understand and he is arrogant and stubborn!
The rest accusations and insults can been seen in the current thread.
I should remind you, that my answers to all these were only the following:
1. Go on people “speak you mind” you have the right to do it, but this doesn’t mean that you are right. Only the best works have been and will be featured. No exceptions, no politics, we are just trying to have in our Skinbase vitrine ONLY the best works, with fairness and respect to ALL the authors. Some people may think that their works are the best and deserve to be featured, but maybe they are wrong.
2. No matter what the choice is there will be always people who will disagree, that’s life.
3. (email was sent to fjnunes712):
Hello Fred,
You have the right to speak your mind, in a kind way as an adult.
Though, it is not acceptable to insult any Admin or Moderator of Skinbase.
I feel sorry for this situation, but we don´t need more drama´s in SB.
There are no hard feelings on my end too.
Nikos
The thread will be closed now, we had enough of drama.
Reply by: MountainHawk
"Boldly bothering to go where no-ones bothered before"